| Author |
Message: approval
baisis or collection basis |
mmahmoodi2
New Member
location: Iran
|
Posted 11/10/01 3:54:39 PM |
I would appreciate to learn about the following
matter:
what diffrences are between remittance documents
on approval and collection basis under a credit
when has a bank dispatched documents on approval
basis and when has a bank dispatch documents on
collection basis
majid mahmoodi |
JSMITH
Member
location: United Kingdom
|
Posted 11/12/01 9:36:07 AM |
The terms that banks employ when sending unchecked/discrepant
documents to the issuing bank cause much confusion.
Terms such as documents in trust,
documents on collection and, from
what you say, documents on approval
are all used to describe the SAME process. The
term documents on collection, in particular,
can lead to serious misunderstandings, with the
issuing bank sometimes treating the documents
as a true collection, under URC522. Although long-winded,
my opinion is that it is best simply to talk of
sending documents to the issuing bank under protection
of the credit for examination, and for ones
remitting schedule to make clear this is the purpose
for, and basis on, which one has despatched documents.
|
T.O.Lee
Member
location: Canada
|
Posted 11/12/01 10:09:17 PM |
According to Charles del Busto, documents with
known discrepancies presented to the issuing bank
should be sent "for PAYMENT against the DC
under UCP 500" to avoid being misunderstood
and processed as if it were under ICC Documentary
Collections Rules URC 522.
Presentation "for payment against the DC
under UCP 500" would require the issuing
bank to comply with Articles 13 & 14 of the
UCP 500.
http://www.tolee.com
|
LjubicaHolik
New Member
location: Yugoslavia
|
Posted 12/1/01 10:04:47 PM
In fact that is the same. Mine opinion is that
By L/C /UCP 500/ is better to
use >approval basis<.Term >collection
basis< is more related on other instrument-collection-/URR
522/
regards
Lj.Holik, Novi Sad, Yugoslavia
|
PavelA
New Member
location: Czech Republic
|
Posted 12/2/01 4:12:04 PM |
I agree with the opinion that it is more advisible
to use "on approval basis" or "in
trust" terms, but on the other hand if docs
are sent "on collection basis" without
any clear indication that the presentation is
to be subject to URC 522, it is still being made
under protection of UCP500. The appropriate way
is that one suggested by T.O.Lee, for instance.
Regards,
Pavel Andrle
[edited 12/2/01 4:14:03 PM]
|
T.O.Lee
Member
location: Canada
|
Posted 12/2/01 4:37:23 PM |
Our thanks to Pavel for his recommendation of
our suggested wordings.
A CASE OF INVALID TYPO DISCREPANCY
Now let us bring the issue to a further depth
and share with members our views gained in resolving
DC disputes.
Let us imagine that we have an immaterial typo
error, such as a telephone number of the notifying
party in a bill of lading which we cannot cure
due to lots of reasons, such as pressure of time
or the bill of lading is issued in a place other
than the port of loading and the like.
EXERCISING OUR RIGHTS OR ASKING FOR MERCY?
If we point out the typo error to the issuing
bank as a honest person and at the same time present
documents "for payment under UCP 500",
we may still deny the validity of this typo error
discrepancy in a court of laws. Pointing it out
as typo does not necessarily mean that we deem
it as a valid discrepancy. By saying "presentation
for payment" we are in fact exercising our
right as a beneficiary to "demand payment".
If we present documents "for approval",
we may give an unclear signal or imprecise instruction
to the issuing bank that we admit the typo as
a valid discrepancy and ask for merciful "approval".
DC AND TRUST ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS
Similarly, prsentation "in trust" may
be interpreted as appointing the issuing bank
as a "trustee" that is then empowered
to determine the typo as a valid discrepancy which
the beneficiary as a "settlor/principal"
cannot deny later. In fact trust and DC are two
entirely different things and we should not use
terms unless we understand them fully and have
caution of the possible confusions or misinterpretations.
We think in a court of laws, the barrister representing
the issuing bank would most probably make such
interpretations to protect his clients. Then we
may regret that we have chosen those words.
AVOID THE WORD DISCREPANCY
From risk management point of view, we would recommend
our clients not to use the word "discrepancy"
in their covering letter but rather use "typo
error" for absolute safety and clarity.
Which wording you prefer? It is entirely up to
you. For those who do this sort of presentation
quite frequently, it is now time to seek your
legal counsel to get this straight once and for
all.
DISCLAIMER
Our opinions expressed above are solely for discussion
purposes and you should not rely or act on them
without first seeking legal counsel. We have not
any responsibility or liability on our parts for
any damages, losses or consequences of whatever
nature.
http://www.tolee.com
[edited 12/2/01 6:53:17 PM]
|
Laurence A. J. Bacon
Member
location: Ireland
|
Posted 12/3/01 3:14:49 PM |
In such circumstances I would recommend an instruction
to "forward documents to the issuing bank
for examination under UCP 500".
From the beneficiary's viewpoint there is no admission
of discrepancy. From the nominated bank's viewpoint,
the instruction is to examine (for discrepancies)
the documents presented. This does not preclude
the nominated bank from listing its alleged discrepancies,
but the above instruction requires the issuing
bank to examine the documents independently (as
it should do anyway).
|
T.O.Lee
Member
location: Canada
|
Posted 12/3/01 5:24:55
PM |
A PROCESS IS NOT THE AIM OR RESULT
Examination of documents is merely a PROCESS leading
to THE RESULT - payment or payment decision. We
present documents for payment - the end result.
We are not interested in the process. That is
not our aim.
CLEAR AND PRECISE INSTRUCTIONS
We think that the proposed instruction to "forward
documents to the issuing bank for examination
under UCP 500" is not clear and precise enough
as required in DC instructions. The sole purpose
for the presentation is to demand payment. This
most important message must be spelt out precisely.
Otherwise the issuing bank may respond:
"Thank you very much, we have examined the
documents and no discrepancies are found. They
are now returned to you for your disposal at your
risk and cost".
If we ask the issuing bank why it does not pay
us, it may say:
"We do exactly as you have instructed us
- to examine the documents and nothing more!'
If this case is to be adjudicated by a Judge more
inclined to literal interpretation, we may need
an apeal.
We would like to share with members a good slogan
from Quality Management
"Do it right the first time".
http://www.tolee.com
[edited 12/3/01 5:46:47 PM]
|
Laurence A. J. Bacon
Member
location: Ireland
|
Posted 12/4/01 2:11:33 PM
T. O.
a nominated bank which finds, in their opinion,
a discrepancy in documents presented, may be unwilling
to accept an instruction to send documents to
an issuing bank "for payment". It is
accepted that if this is agreeable to the nominated
bank, this (for payment instruction) is the best
instruction to give. However, in the absence of
such agreement, an alternative wording, agreeable
to both bene & nominated bank is necessary.
It was this question which I addressed.
Laurence
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